Curse

Morphy · Jan 10, 2011, 09:17 AM // 09:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Nerfing the FotM farm is like playing popamole. The problem is with degenerate PvE areas that boil down to 'do lots AoE damage' and nothing but. Short of a total revamp of high end PvE on the order of the HM update, nothing else to be done is worthwhile. Unfortunately, I highly doubt Anet will be investing that much effort into fixing GW1 in the twilight of its years.

^This. PvE as a whole is not designed to be challenging, so it never will.

aspi · Jan 10, 2011, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Is dwg ever used outside doa(not those courier runs pulease) anywhere by anyone? If it lets people without the skills or opertunity to do doa why not? There are sc teams without it doing it in so much less time nerfing this one skill should not even be debated.

Also about Shadow form, I never done it so dont know if its easy or not, it's just that imo the skill is lame and should be removed from the game.

Hobbs · Jan 10, 2011, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iron Smerf

Get a ranger or warrior and thats GG. SF is not "easy" to run.

Herp...no. FoWSC has heaps of Shadow Warriors and Rangers right from the start and an SF tank works fine.

Xiaquin · Jan 10, 2011, 06:45 PM // 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Del

Your excuses against it are also pretty feeble.

You haven't given one reason it's a balanced skill, it's just not "hurting" enough of the game. It's not just DoA, look at the skill itself: it's an over-buffed CWD. any sane balance would have kept something of either cost, activation or recharge instead of bottoming them out and cranking up AP and radius.

Let's look at an example of balance, non-elites with same functionality:

Quote:

Shadow of Fear: 10/2/5. Adjacent radius.

Meekness: 15/2/15/17%hp sac. Area radius.

Another, an elite vs. non-elite, similar functionality:

Quote:

Suffering: 15/1/10. Degen. Nearby radius.
Lingering Curse: 15/1/10. Keeps degen, adds reduced healing. Same radius.

Do you see how these skills, when upgraded, don't become several times more powerful at a fraction of the cost, allowing back-to-back usage, and have no other restrictions or penalties? Power is balanced, not lop-sided.

Also see: SF, compared to any other skill in the game that can block spells. Even Final Fantasy had this balanced; Reflect would bounce *any* spell off you, not make you nearly invincible for only 5 MP.

killerbot3009 · Jan 10, 2011, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travaail

Destructive was glaive is far too overpowered for normal mode and allows people to do mindless domain of anguish runs with no more skill required than ursan.

needs to be nerfed.

it is an awesome skill, and doesnt need nerfing....also it works well in HM too...

Kunder · Jan 11, 2011, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

You haven't given one reason it's a balanced skill, it's just not "hurting" enough of the game. It's not just DoA, look at the skill itself: it's an over-buffed CWD. any sane balance would have kept something of either cost, activation or recharge instead of bottoming them out and cranking up AP and radius.

Yes, and you could say the same thing for everything added since Nightfall. Your point?

Xiaquin · Jan 11, 2011, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Yes, and you could say the same thing for everything added since Nightfall. Your point?

I say the same thing about PvE skills, too: it's all power creep while much of the skills in the game rot. That's ok in everyone's opinion, apparently, because oh look: candy. What were we talking about?

Bright Star Shine · Jan 11, 2011, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Sorry I missed so much of this jolly conversation, but got banned for 5 days, so missed quite a lot.. Read over most of it, and it looks like we still got the same ideas, so gonna throw mine in again.

If a trained chimp can beat a game's Elite areas, in whatever mode you want, there are serious issues going on about the quality of gameplay and the tactics used to get it done.

Swingline · Jan 12, 2011, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiaquin

Also see: SF, compared to any other skill in the game that can block spells.

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

People here keep claiming that DwG is so OP but it takes four of them to clear DoA in two hours. Four SF make UW HM possible in 45 minutes and FoW HM in 25 minutes which were 3-4 hour elite areas back in the day but everyone keeps saying take SF out and I /uninstall. It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them. I seriously think its time for this thread to be closed.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 12, 2011, 11:32 AM // 11:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

People here keep claiming that DwG is so OP but it takes four of them to clear DoA in two hours. Four SF make UW HM possible in 45 minutes and FoW HM in 25 minutes which were 3-4 hour elite areas back in the day but everyone keeps saying take SF out and I /uninstall. It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them. I seriously think its time for this thread to be closed.

I don't think it's that much about the armbrace prices anymore. tbh, I can't be bothered, I've made a nice pile of ecto's so far, doing DoASC and got 50/50 HoM, so really can't be bothered with what happens next. It is the same with most of the DoASC ppl I think. And as Impulsion has already pointed out, the armbrace prices have somewhat stabilized themselves.
48.4,8= 230,4k
24.8k = 192k
Which makes sense, if you look at the amount of armbraces in the game right now, compared to then. Things lose value over time if they're farmed (BEST example EVER = Elemental Swords: from 1xx-2xx ecto one week for a q9 to 5k now. They Skyrocketed and Plumited worse than anything I have ever seen in this game.)

What most people are bothered about is that DoA is reduced to a mash-your-face-against-your-keyboard-gg-you-win-Mode that is even worse than Ursan, because it's exactly the same faceroll, but it works even less good. Ursan was the equivalent of what iddqd was in Doom. Read my above post for the best explanation that sums up most of the people's frustrations about what this skill has reduced the game to.

matter of time · Jan 12, 2011, 12:36 PM // 12:36

don't like DWG don't play it, don't like SF (obby flesh and spell braker too), don't play it but i am very curious how you are gonna handle UW or DOA HM then ... well sure it is possible but at what cost? hundreds of fails until you will find the way that gives you a chance to do it depending to the some extent on luck ... I play for fun and relax ... i use in real life skills and economy but that just me ... but plese don't be a garden's dog ...

NerfHerder · Jan 12, 2011, 12:37 PM // 12:37

DwG is just as mindless as most melee builds and half the builds in Trenchway to use. The same principle is used in ANY caster spike build. Half the team does support and half the team spams their damage skills. A spirit spammer is even more mindless, 1-7, then they usually dont have to do anything for 30-60 seconds. Nerf DwG, and something just as mindless will take its place.

The comparison to Ursan is flawed. Like many have already said, Ursan was used for everything, DwG is not. When you see GLF DwG for (insert anything but DoA), DwG might need to be reevaluated for a rebalance.

With all the mindless OP builds in existence in GW, you cant tell me this thread is anything less than a QQfest about armbrace prices falling.

Swingline · Jan 12, 2011, 12:41 PM // 12:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I don't think it's that much about the armbrace prices anymore. tbh, I can't be bothered, I've made a nice pile of ecto's so far, doing DoASC and got 50/50 HoM, so really can't be bothered with what happens next. It is the same with most of the DoASC ppl I think. And as Impulsion has already pointed out, the armbrace prices have somewhat stabilized themselves.
48.4,8= 230,4k
24.8k = 192k
Which makes sense, if you look at the amount of armbraces in the game right now, compared to then. Things lose value over time if they're farmed (BEST example EVER = Elemental Swords: from 1xx-2xx ecto one week for a q9 to 5k now. They Skyrocketed and Plumited worse than anything I have ever seen in this game.)

What most people are bothered about is that DoA is reduced to a mash-your-face-against-your-keyboard-gg-you-win-Mode that is even worse than Ursan, because it's exactly the same faceroll, but it works even less good. Ursan was the equivalent of what iddqd was in Doom. Read my above post for the best explanation that sums up most of the people's frustrations about what this skill has reduced the game to.

Seriously think about it, if dwg was nerfed armbraces would go up somewhat after a while because there would be zero pugs farming DoA for their armbrace to fill HoM. It would be all the hardcore DoA guilds doing it and selling them to the peeps that need em. Not to mention I know plenty of people that have farmed full sets of tormented weapons and im sure they are far from the only ones so plenty of armbraces would be sucked from the market to stimulate a price increase. We have close to 1 year before GW2 prob hits the shelves so that gives plenty of time to watch armbraces go up and reap the benefits plenty.

The only reason the Ele Sword went down from xxx ecto to 5k is because of an expansion release. Over farming did have something to do with it but the developers of EoTN made the drop rate from raptors far too generous with the sword. About 98% of the cause of the ele swords fall from grace was the release of EoTN. Same thing happened with the Stygian Reaver.

DwG has been the meta in DoA for years now. Thats pretty much the only reason this thread exists is because people are getting bored. There has been no new expansion for nearly 4 years so they are QQing about the current content and the skills involved. We were getting an expansion every year so no one bitched about the last ones mindless farming of the content.

I have been doing urgoz and deep for close to 5 years. When these 2 elite dungeons came out they were quite difficult, now it doesn't matter if I do a different profession or if the whole team is using a different set up its still boring as hell and mindless. Same thing happened to me for UWSC, FoWSC and for DoA. Wont matter if DwG gets nerfed, another mindless build that requires only button mashing, a mouse and a keyboard will take its place and prob make the run last an hour longer, and why should they nerf DwG because you have a pile of ectos? Let other people get a legit chance as well.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 12, 2011, 01:19 PM // 13:19

Trust me, the armbraces wouldn't go up more than 1-2ecto's if it got nerfed. They would spike for a couple days, but DoASC gives quite a good influx of Armbraces. And tbh, we've been getting a lot of ex-DwG'ers in our guild who say they were sick of the mindlessness. They are accepted without any prejudice and we are always happy to teach people, as long as they take the effort to listen, and at least admit it when they screw something up.

DwG got many people to start liking DoA, and if it gets nerfed, I think a lot of ppl will turn to DoASC guild before the new mindless PUG build is released. Perhaps a couple of new guilds will sprout out of the ground. Although only a small percentage of the PUGs will go through the effort, but it will make up through the faster rate of getting armbraces.

And @ Nerfherder, yes DoASC is equally mindless, I can do it on automode if I'm spiker/UA/Bonder/Recall tank (not perfect on 1 tank roll yet, gotta get that one down before I can run /automode there too^^) but first you need to know what you're doing. The new players need to focus very well, be able to listen to coordinated commands (which I generally completely ignore, and choose my own spike target cause I trust my own judgment better :P) so they really do have to put some brainpower in it. And tactics constantly change (we did a COMPLETE revise of our tactics recently, and we failed a lot at first, but now we get better times though) so there is some change in the dullness. DwG is always the same, always the same tactics, etc etc.

We always find newer and cooler ways to it (although they are not always faster

) And fissure, if you read this, it is NOT fishway, you little tactic-stealing bitch.

thedukesd · Jan 12, 2011, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonymous

If you are going to nerf DwG, nerf permasins and all AoE casters.

Name an elementalist area efect skill that has the same range (better said can hit the same number of mobs), has armour penetration, has the same or lower activation time, has same or lower recharge time, has same or lower energy cost, don't cause exhastions if some requirements are not meet as it happens in dwg case (it needs to have all of them in the same time).

Regarding DoA becoming an ghost town without dwg. Before dwg was changed it was not a ghost town. You were still able to find people to party and do that area. Atm DoA is no longer an elite area.
How many people u can find in Deep, Urgoz when it's not zb?

If you want to do an experiment go there an try to find a balanced party to do DoA (100% random people) when it's not zb. Good luck finding a tank that knows to tank...

Anyway DwG is not the only skill that is completly bad designed there are several others...

Swingline · Jan 12, 2011, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Trust me, the armbraces wouldn't go up more than 1-2ecto's if it got nerfed. They would spike for a couple days, but DoASC gives quite a good influx of Armbraces. And tbh, we've been getting a lot of ex-DwG'ers in our guild who say they were sick of the mindlessness. They are accepted without any prejudice and we are always happy to teach people, as long as they take the effort to listen, and at least admit it when they screw something up.

DwG got many people to start liking DoA, and if it gets nerfed, I think a lot of ppl will turn to DoASC guild before the new mindless PUG build is released. Perhaps a couple of new guilds will sprout out of the ground. Although only a small percentage of the PUGs will go through the effort, but it will make up through the faster rate of getting armbraces.

And @ Nerfherder, yes DoASC is equally mindless, I can do it on automode if I'm spiker/UA/Bonder/Recall tank (not perfect on 1 tank roll yet, gotta get that one down before I can run /automode there too^^) but first you need to know what you're doing. The new players need to focus very well, be able to listen to coordinated commands (which I generally completely ignore, and choose my own spike target cause I trust my own judgment better :P) so they really do have to put some brainpower in it. And tactics constantly change (we did a COMPLETE revise of our tactics recently, and we failed a lot at first, but now we get better times though) so there is some change in the dullness. DwG is always the same, always the same tactics, etc etc.

We always find newer and cooler ways to it (although they are not always faster

) And fissure, if you read this, it is NOT fishway, you little tactic-stealing bitch.

Its all fine and good if you want to do DoAsc with your guild/ally. You sound like you also don't care about the price of armbraces but why do you want DwG nerfed? DwG allows peeps to have access to an elite area w/o leaving their friends behind to join a doasc guild/ally. The ppl who are bored with it and dont care about their current guild have an option to join a doasc anyways and should let it be. The only reason to take DwG away from casual players is the chance to make armbraces go up and make some extra $. Let them keep DwG.

I just dont see them nerfing it at this late in the game so might as well let it be.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 12, 2011, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Its all fine and good if you want to do DoAsc with your guild/ally. You sound like you also don't care about the price of armbraces but why do you want DwG nerfed? DwG allows peeps to have access to an elite area w/o leaving their friends behind to join a doasc guild/ally. The ppl who are bored with it and dont care about their current guild have an option to join a doasc anyways and should let it be. The only reason to take DwG away from casual players is the chance to make armbraces go up and make some extra $. Let them keep DwG.

I just dont see them nerfing it at this late in the game so might as well let it be.

I don't like it because it's the worst faceroll in the history of GW, worse than Ursan because it works less good.

I can be a bit of an elitist when it comes to stuff like that, I want people to use at least some sort of tactics, some sort of effort. I hate the argument that now low-level players can get the high-end items too, because they can get it in hundreds of ways, but this one is just morally bad. Again, a retarded inbred, blindfolded monkey can do it with its feet tied to it's ears and still be better than the average player.

Essence Snow · Jan 12, 2011, 05:18 PM // 17:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I don't like it because it's the worst faceroll in the history of GW, worse than Ursan because it works less good.

I can be a bit of an elitist when it comes to stuff like that, I want people to use at least some sort of tactics, some sort of effort. I hate the argument that now low-level players can get the high-end items too, because they can get it in hundreds of ways, but this one is just morally bad. Again, a retarded inbred, blindfolded monkey can do it with its feet tied to it's ears and still be better than the average player.

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

Gabriel of Ravn · Jan 12, 2011, 06:02 PM // 18:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Essence Snow

Hardly the "worst faceroll in history of GW". Anyone role besides the tank in DoAsc is equally mindless....wait for tank to ball...1.2.3.4....well u get the picture. I find it very hard for one to complain about DwG when they use SF. Now if you want challenge try doing DoA like Barbie Pryncess' guild/team....w/o and spell protection and w/o DwG. If you did that...then I could possibly see room for one to complain, but not when one exploits the OP of SF then complains about OP of DwG. It really does seem rather hypocritical.

This is true I took some friends who have never been to DoA before I was tanking I told them what to do which skills to grab blah blah took about 1 hour probably would have gone quicker with vent but oh well I just wanted to help them with their HoM.

Xiaquin · Jan 12, 2011, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

Yes SF is horribly OP compared to the other enchants that block spells but DwG looks like a reg skill to SF.

No one is saying DwG is as OP and damaging to the game as SF. I'm strictly comparing skills of a similar type. DwG is powerful, cheap, spammy AoE damage and makes a mockery of an elite area. A skill does not have to be so OP as SF to be considered for a nerf.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swingline

It has become apparent to me that all people here opposing DwG are doing so because it is localized to DoA and just want it to be nerfed so armbrace prices will skyrocket and put them out of reach of the normal players hands to sell to them.

Please read previous posts. I couldn't care less about economics, though I wonder if it's a reason this skill is being defended. DwG is a lazy bone thrown out there because comprehensive balance isn't going to happen without an exodus by players after their candy is taken away.